New Zealand Ghosts & Other Haunts

I would like to know what the word "Demon" means to you. Not what its correct definition is or the nature of its greek origin...I realise a lot of people on this forum are quite bright.

What I would like to find out is whether many of us believe in "Evil" in spirit. Whether we fear it and even if any of us have encountered it? Share your story here please! I find the idea of non human entities quite appealing for many reasons. I have a personal belief in a type of native tree spirit because my grandfather told me so many times of his own experiences with them in early childhood and during the second world war...so if there is such a thing as a benevolent non human energy, is it possible that the universe has room for its opposite? Just how dangerous are they?

Your thoughts?

Do leprechauns count???

probably not as demons....err....no....aye?

It's hard to say, but I reckon maybe no, they don't exist. Only because if they did, wouldn't they destroy all that is good in the world? You could argue that much of humanity is bad, but there's far more good in the world than bad. & often the 'bad' is only misunderstood. If i were a demon, & had the supposed power a demon has, I would go nuts & cause real evil, real damage, wouldn't you?

I'd say yes. There is evil in this world, Demons? Sure why not. Barramel is right, they'd try and destroy all good in the world, perhaps they do. I remember hearing a story back when I was very young. I'll skip the bulk of it, when Satan tried to take over heaven there were those who stood with God, those who stood against and those who remained Neutral, those who supported God got to stay, those against were banished to Hell, whilst those who remained neutral were sent to Earth. Assuming you believe in God, I believe since he remained as ruler in Heaven, he had much more support then his counter-part, who could be considered evil or even Demonic (I know i'v heard Satan referred to as a Demon a number of times)

As barramel said, there is a lot of good in the world, more good then bad. So if there is Demons, it would be reasonable to assume Angels or something of the likes would exist and thwart any Demon that tried to cause serious damage, or at the very least try. If I had the power to cause damage, it doesn't necessarily mean I would. For instance, if I wanted to, I could kill my elderly neighbours and flee, it may be weeks before anyone finds out and I could be on the other side of the country, or planet by then. Few repercussions for my actions. I have the means, but that doesn't mean I would. Just as if I had the ability to blow up the planet, I wouldn't.

I believe in both Demons and Angels, I believe both are made out to be something they're not, and the only difference between the two is how they choose to use there power. We consider Ivan Milat to be evil, but if he of used his power (his gun) for good, or didn't use it all, no one would have any clue who he is. Or if Satan didn't try to take over Heaven (which some may consider evil) and stuck to his day job (what ever that was) we would likely not know his name today.

And then there is my all time favourite quote.

"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity." - Robert A. Heinlein.

Whilst I do believe in Evil, Demons, and so fourth. I think to often it's confused with other things, such as stupidity. I didn't break your pot on purpose, I just wanted to see what would happen if I dropped it, type of thing. Some times something seems like a great idea and then some one ends up getting hurt in some way.

Wow dude, thats pretty much how I see it too. Great stuff and thanks for offering your opinion! Always a pleasure to read MBP!

And here's the crux of the problem - if you don't believe in 'God' as in the Christian God, by defualt Demons & Angels are not not going to appear in your belief system. I think there is evil & good in the world, but I think it is created by the energy of the being (s) that are willing it (whether consciously or not). Simply, when you are bad, bad things happen to you, when you are good, good things happen. Yes this is a simplication & generalisation but you get the gist!


The other problem with demons & their tendancy to wreck havoc is that all things act in the way that they naturally were made to ie, lions kill zebra, rabbits dig holes, birds make nests. Why would demons be any different? They are inherently bad, you would expect them to do very bad things.

I think demons are a label given to bad things that happen as a way to explain them, catergorise them. I think maybe demons could be very bad energy. Example: the poltergeist in the Edinburgh mausoleum - seems pretty evil to me!

But I have an open mind to everything so won't discount demons yet!

I disagree, most belief systems, short of atheism, have some kind of Angelic or Demonic being, the Hindu have the Naga, and they also have Angels. Shintoism has it's demons, as do most Asian religions, many of which were assimilated into Islam actually, Ancient Egypt had Apophis just as it had Isis. Even the old Roman religion had Apollo and the Manticore, the belief in the Manticore carried on from the Roman to the Byzantine Empire. The Ancient Semitic people (other then Egyptian) had a whole host of Demons, Deities and etc also. Demons and Angels are not endemic to Christendom, we just give them different names.

Unfortunately, we cannot know for sure, it's all just hearsay at this point. Though I like what you said. In a sense, demon is an Umbrella term, it covers a lot of things, though some times it shouldn't. I think Demons are just that, negative energy. Why else would they thrive in some places, whilst not existing in others. If people are spiteful in a place, bad things happen, is it demons? probably not. Maybe they make people more hostile, dunno. I think if a place had a bad history, or is still bad to this day, it would be more likely to a nice place for something that thrives on negative energy, as opposed to a place with a calm history and happy-go lucky people, it would have a hard time simply because of all the positive energy. If that didn't make sense (I often don't) think of it this way. The fish is a demon, the water is negative energy, outside of the tank is all positive energy, you move the demon/fish from negative/water to positive/land and it has trouble surviving.

Thanks Barremel, always good to question everything now and then, gives new insight into things. Certainly made me re-think, a little bit anyways.

*Beaming* Cheers manbearpig! Enjoyed your reply too!

You're right, however, I should have omitted the 'Christian' bit, as you quite rightly pointed out, many religions have there own demons - & I was subtly (too subtly perhaps) eluding that if you were an Atheist or even Agnostic it would be very difficult to believe in angels & demons.

Wow, I thought that cannot be as I read this....and I wanted to show a sign of life again as it has been some time ago when I last visited here.

I try to explain with as few words as possible what a demon could be. This term has lost its original sense long ago and was misused and put on a negative touch by "Church", when natural things got a different teint by misusing their names. A common example would be good and bad or heaven and hell what simply means yourself, the good and bad in you (everybody has), natural Ying/Yang.

Originally the word "demon" just meant a living being different from human living beings. In recent times there came up the term "otherkin", but that really is what "demon" signified at the beginning. A non-human soul but in a human body or shape. The souls are either re-incarnated or take on human form/shape whatever. In most cases demons were called "benevolent" beings. But "Church" misused the sense and transformed the word "demon" into an only malignent or evil sense.

So, I explained because I tend to use the term in the original sense and to seperate the demons I use a corresponding adjective. Each demon has its Ying/Yang as well, but the one of the both that is fed is stronger. So, there are different types of demons: more benevolent, more malevolent. Benevolent are e.g. the good people, i.e. fairies and faes, pookas, dwarfs, elves etc. They can be mischievious sometimes but never harm or kill a person / human or non-human. But there are demons that are really up to 90% evil and kill and harm.

Demons usually live on another plain, mostly in the Lower and the Astral Plains. On the Mid and Upper Plains you will find souls moved on towards what some call heaven, paradise, nirvana, complete enlightenment. The Astral and Lower Plains can be compared with so-called purgatory. On this plains live the demons that cannot move on to their correct plains and haunt the living.

Demons are classified concerning their tendencies to elements: Fire, Earth, Wind, Water, Cosmic and Astral.
The Fire demons are divided into Flame demons, Warrior demons and Wraiths. The Earth demons are split into Hermit demons, Tree demons, Forrest demons and Animal demons.
The Wind demons consists of Storm demons and Banshees, Faeries and Sprites.
Water demons comprises Black Water demons and Drowning demons.

The most evil are the Cosmic and Astral ones:
The Astral demons are those that form the legions of hell who can be called by certain rituals from the Goetia or the Clavicula Salomonis. Those can also be conjured via Ouja-board when misused. They can cause death and harm when they obtain power over you and the master/servant position is unfortunately changed. To those belong the Possession demons, Demon Lords and Mimickers.

Cosmic demons are divided into Shadows and Tempters. They are entities of negative energy who exerce massive aggression towards human beings that enter their territories. Shadows e.g. try to possess a human being to get some form of a self. Some of them even work for other demons and attack humans on-site.
Tempters are very old demons that feed off of the negative energy of a human that is created when listening to the demons. They cling to the soul until it is removed forcibly or by self-religious ways. Sometimes they do not even manifest in a certain shape.

Nice greeting to all of you and I hope that my explanations could have been of some help. Just explaining as well that I leave for another holiday trip from Sunday, 30th August till Saturday, 19th September....just for info, if there should be some questions to my writing just spare them for me till I come back.

Malevolent forces do exist but I do believe the term "demon", its numerous descriptions, theories and hierarchies are just something mankind has made up to explain and understand the creation of negative and evil forces to gain more insight into how they manifest and operate. The "evil" forces that man commonly has the most problems with are the internal forces that lurk within. There have been a number of very old texts dedicated to the subject in much detail and this represents the strong desire throughout the ages of the willingness and want of understanding of these negative forces in the world. By giving them names, descriptions and many other attributions we (mankind) have attempted to try and create some sort of false security that we have some kind of deep knowledge, understanding and control of them. This conjures up old archaic visions of the witch in the circle summoning, controlling and directing evil spirits and demons to carry out her evil deeds, when in all reality the demons are within! I think of the Legend of Faust, who makes a pact with the Devil in exchange for knowledge, desperately summoning and directing them all to no avail!

In most cases claims of supposed demonic possession and attacks are caused by illness or other causes. I tend to believe that people who often become fascinated by demons and evil spirits, who study the likes of demonology usually do so as they have a yearning and deep longing for an understand of the darkness and suffering in the world that dwells within themselves. Every force in the world has its opposite but the Light will always win and beat the Darkness.


Etymology (Wikipedia)

"The idea of demons is as old as religion itself, and the word demon seems to have ancient origins. The Merriam-Webster dictionary gives the etymology of the word as Greek daimon, probably from the verb daiesthai meaning "to divide, distribute." The Proto-Indo-European root *deiwos for god, originally an adjective meaning "celestial" or "bright, shining" has retained this meaning in many related Indo-European languages and cultures (Sanskrit deva, Latin deus, German Tiw, Welsh [Duw],]), but also provided another other common word for demon in Avestan daeva.

In modern Greek, the word daimon (Greek: δαίμων) has the same meaning as the modern English demon. But in Ancient Greek, δαίμων meant "spirit" or "higher self", much like the Latin genius. This should not, however, be confused with the word genie, which is a false friend or false cognate of genius"

I always enjoyed the writings of Micheal Moorecock, who created the multiversal construct of Law vs Chaos. Both have positive attributes but without chaos, law stagnates and without law, chaos becomes entropic. Its perfectly natural....SO perhaps an imbalance (perceived differently dependant upon your belief system) is also a natural part of the process of balance. Demons? Angels? Perhaps that which is Good is also malign. A lot of occult writing is superstitious nonsense containing a kernel of truth. The majority of religious argument requires a suspension of disbelief. Balancing Rational and irrational constructs simultaneously makes for a VERY interesting existence. I guess the subject is never going to be completely black and white.

Not being religious I tend to not prescribe the names on things that are associated with religion.

Demons I dont believe in as such, no.

I certainly feel that a certain part of the spirit that continues into the 'whatever' beyond our lives retains some of the personality traits of people, the tricksters, the nice ones, the social ones, the mean ones.....

But I dont believe in the 'thout shall be cast from this mortal body' exorcism demons.